Neurological immunopathology

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Recognizing neuro-psychiatric symptoms

A good overview of neuro-psychiatric Th1 disease symptoms can be found at this link. Remember, it's not just Lyme disease, but all Th1 illness that can result in these disturbances. The problem, as I see it, is that reading even multi-syllable clinical descriptions are a far cry from actually experiencing them, which is a whole lot more complex.

As Dr. Marshall said, it's almost impossible for the person who is ill to recognize these - until they leave them behind in recovery.

Th1 illness itself produces the neuroses and psychoses. We have a number of folk here recovering from bipolar disorder, and a couple from obsessive compulsive disorder. Paranoia is a very common symptom among patients who are ill with Th1, especially in online environments where the moderators allow the most seriously affected to plant silly ideas in the heads of those who are easily led.

I am not aware that there is any official recognition of the link between psychological and immune phenomena. I have seen a few papers come through, but they seem to be ignored by the mainstream. Additionally, those patients who are affected don't seem to realize it, unless their families are still well enough to bring them back to reality.

Indeed, the psychological symptoms are really only easily recognizable when you no longer have them. Recovery gives 20:20 hindsight ~Belinda Fenter

Members experiences

The Free Ticket idea is a great one. This is an area that this family will shine. MCS has strong neuro reactions so we are totally accustomed to one of us flying off the handle with anger, tears, hysteria. The best ones are where you can't stop laughing. That's a lovely reaction to a chemical.

Sarah is so skilled at dealing with her reactions, I didn't even notice that she'd had a rage attack. She looked understandably irritated and frustrated. When she's well, she should work in the UN or as a hostage negotiator. In this family you can feel and talk about anything.

We've found that keeping things out in the open helps folks know you are in trouble and to not take your behavior to heart. You are responsible for your actions, but your feelings sometimes are pure brain. ~Juanita

Nothing contained in this site is or should be considered, or used as a substitute for, medical advice, diagnosis or treatment by your physician.

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Members' experiences with neurological immunopathologyA temporary exacerbation of neurological symptoms due to bacterial death. Requires careful management by physicians.

Members' experiences with neurological immunopathology

MS-like immunopathologyA temporary increase in disease symptoms experienced by Marshall Protocol patients that results from the release of cytokines and endotoxins as disease-causing bacteria are killed. Ival (member in phase 3 has RA tells of his MS-like immunopathology):

Phase three continues to amaze me. I just went through a series of herxs in my upper spine that the best ways to describe them are very MS like. I had a lot of neuropathy and paralysis in my hands and my legs. I had no strength in my hands and my legs became real heavy and rigid feeling real difficult to walk. I've had this before but just not as bad and it always followed with a lot of joint pain in my legs and hips. This time it pretty much left my joints alone just mild joint pain which has been great.

I even had the lightning flashes and the spots of light that people with MS get and Major chronic fatigue for a couple days. This took a little over two weeks to run its course and I feel fine now. The best thing about it I was able to stay on the full dose of Phase Three meds the whole time.

That has been a long time coming and I'm excited to say that I've been able to stay at the full dose and get through a herxs. I could have slowed it down by lowering the Clind but I did not have to do.

My oldest sister has MS and she has had some of these very same symptoms over the years. It is so obvious once you start this protocol how all of these diseases are related. I came down with rheumatoid arthritis but one or two different species or just catching them in a different order and I could've had multiple sclerosis or Sarcoidosis.

I definitely feel like I'm running out of bacteria and my herxs are going to be background nuisance before too long. ~Ival

I vividly remember that for a long time I avoided stairs and heights, and I found glass-walled elevators or upper levels particularly unnerving, since I always felt like I was being drawn toward them, to almost-surely fall. I used to be frequently startled awake by a feeling that I was falling, and my body jumping to catch my “fall.” All that is gone now, and I am thankful. ~Belinda

Jerking and tremors -There are times too, when I am having “all over jerks and tremors” that last for so long and include such dramatic jerking of the head, neck, trunk, and limbs that a prescription is neccesary for this, as it becomes very painful on the muscles with all this non stop action, not to mention interferring with fluid intake, eating, speaking, etc.

One of the triggers for “Myoclonus” is infection, as you will find in this Fact Sheet on Myoclonus. You may want to speak with the staff and your physician on medication when this becomes debilatating. ~hrts4me

OCD Julia's experience with OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).

Mental errors, reactions, focus It is weird to have a strong immune system reaction with no pain or discomfort. That may be misstated. When the little macrophage hand grenades spoil my serenity then my Wife and family bear some discomfort.

I am choosing to dose or skip my antibiotic by noting how often I do something especially dumb, along the lines of storing my keys in the fridge.

The 'events' that I care about aren't so benign and often involve moments of poor judgment while driving, or reacting badly in a meeting, or spending a busy day with little focus. ~John McDonald.

Clarity in thinking Beause most my problems are mentally based it is hard for me to recognize improvement at times but I can tell when I'm better when things just seem easier to me, like I'll be thinking about something and realize “hey thats not so hard after all”. ~Jimmy_jimjim

Brain fog (27/12/07) After 2 years on the MP, I would say that any episodes of brainfog that I have are comparable to the occasional ‘vagueness' that any normal person has. ~Vicki SA

“Th1 brain” I ordered the DVD's from http://autoimmunityresearch.org/dvd-requests.html and I have been watching them all weekend. I have another Dr appointment tomorrow and a much better perspective than I had during my previous visits. I wasn't really sure about how to deal with the doctors lack of awareness of Th1 inflammationThe complex biological response of vascular tissues to harmful stimuli such as pathogens or damaged cells. It is a protective attempt by the organism to remove the injurious stimuli as well as initiate the healing process for the tissue.. To make matters worse I have been been inpatient and generally a pain in the ass. I realize now this is the “Th1 brain” that they were talking about on the DVD - All people with Th1 have “Th1 brain”. I have to be calm and rational with the doctor and not come across as some raving maniac with another “internet cure”.

I think that I've been slowly developing the Th1 for about 35 years so I really don't need to start freaking out and it's not going to help anyways. After I was able to think objectively about the “Th1 Brain” information it really helped explain a lot of things…some of them are things I didn't want to admit - but they are true and it sure helps to be aware of them. ~markt9452

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Psychological symptoms of Th1 inflammation

Psychological symptoms of Th1 inflammation

It is my opinion that early and prominent symptoms of Th1 disease are psychological which have been interpreted as anxiety, depression, insomnia, learning disabilities etc.

These symptoms like physical ones are exacerbated during effective treatment of Th1. By understanding this, one can lessen some of the impact of those symptoms, just as one can with the physical symptoms. Not knowing why one is 'suffering' increases the stress of the situation which then, actually intensifies the problem.

By understanding, one can remain more relaxed which lessens the intensity and supports recovery. Also, by accepting the temporary limitations imposed, it is again less stressful and more beneficial for recovery.

In my opinion, seizure disorders are very common in Th1 diseases including borrelia. However, frank grand mal seizures are the least common. Variants of petit mal, 'spacing out', loss of train of thought, muscle twitches, restless leg syndrome etc are all seizure disorders. The 'blacking out' that I have described and which are not uncommon as immune system reactions, are seizures, IMO. Also, emotional outbursts , again common in Th1 diseases, may be temporal lobe seizures.

One physiological causation for panic attacks is the depletion of intracellular magnesium by the infection. I believe this is primarily due to Vit D dysregulation but could also be caused by the direct depleting effect of the physical stress of the illness. Therefore, taking extra magnesium but without calcium or Vit D, can lessen some of these reactions.

Greg Blaney, MD

Cognitive dysfunction

”………, Nobody has dropped out of our study because of kidney failure, or because their heart muscle has weakened, or their lung capacity has diminished.

By all means, ask Doc to measure these for you, but the real reason that you are having trouble, and that others drop out of the study, is that their brain starts playing tricks on them.

Earlier this year Meg, Amy and I gave presentations at a conference “Cognitive Dysfunction in Disease” at the home of the Nobel Prize organization, Karolinska Institute in Sweden. The difficulties you are experiencing are as a result of the disease process.

You need to cut back your IP, but primarily to allow your brain the ability to reason again. To get a grip on reality again. To plan about walking your daughter down the aisle at some time in the future. To plan what you want to do with your life when these bacteria have been defeated and you get your life back again.” ..Trevor..

Dr Marshall : Magnesium is fine. Milk of Magnesia is used by quite a lot of MP folks (the ones with GI tract problems). I used it myself for years. Only remember that you should not take the Minocycline within 2 hours of Magnesium to prevent mal-absorption.

Is it okay to take magnesium?

Vertigo

Inflammation in the inner ear can make you have vertigo - a feeling you are moving, even spinning, or that your environment is moving when in fact they are not. Or you may feel like you are floating or falling. OR these may be due to neurological inflammationThe complex biological response of vascular tissues to harmful stimuli such as pathogens or damaged cells. It is a protective attempt by the organism to remove the injurious stimuli as well as initiate the healing process for the tissue.. The sensation may occur during sleep (waking a person from sleep) or while awake.

While these symptoms can seem disturbing, at least they are not painful and are relatively trivial as long as you are not falling or constantly nauseated. Mentally reassuring yourself may help. Keep in mind that *feeling anxious* can be a neurological symptom. If you don't have a family member around to help you identify anxiety as neurological immunopathology, you are left with having to try to remind yourself. Take heart that these do get better in later portion of treatment. ~Belinda Fenter

-This teacher explained how the amygdala part of the brain is like the “guard shack” that everything has to get past before it is processed by the rest of the brain. And if the amygdala is on heightened alert, then we ” forget to act like ourselves .”

So, if we are in “threat mode” we will act uncharacteristically immature emotionally. We will be responding to others in a self-preservation orientation, when usually we are more than happy to be considerate of others (along with other more mature behaviors). ~Joyful

Last edited on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 03:19 by Meg Mangin R.N.

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Neuro symptoms

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Neuro symptoms

I guess the simple reply to the “science” behind these symptoms is that our brains, cranial nerves, spinal cord and nerves emerging from our cord; as well as peripheral nerves(the whole dang system) are infected with CWD organisms. I suspect there are a number of errant feedback loops and “short circuits” in our brains as well as primary nerve involvement. There is a neurologic syndrome caller Barre-Lieou that involves pinched or inflamed nerves in the cervical spine having effects on the rest of the system.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/neuro/archive/325.html

Some people have reported improvement with skilled osteopathic manipulation or prolotherapy if it is just a post whiplash type injury effecting the neck; but I feel the root of our problem is CWD infection. An MRI can not show cwd infection and can not cure you, but if expense is affordable it does rule out some possibilities like bulging disk and spinal stenosis (for peace of mind) But I feel the little beasties are most likely the problem.

P.Bear, R.N.

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