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Depression

Introduction

Why are depressed patients inflamed? 1)

It is my opinion that early and prominent symptoms of Th1 diseaseAny of the chronic inflammatory diseases caused by bacterial pathogens. are psychological which have been interpreted as anxiety, depression, insomnia, learning disabilities etc. These symptoms like physical ones are exacerbated during effective treatment of Th1 [diseases].

By understanding this, one can lessen some of the impact of those symptoms, just as one can with the physical symptoms. Not knowing why one is 'suffering' increases the stress of the situation which then, actually intensifies the problem. By understanding, one can remain more relaxed which lessens the intensity and supports recovery. Also, by accepting the temporary limitations imposed, it is again less stressful and more beneficial for recovery.

Greg Blaney, MD

Depression and Insomnia study (Trudi Heil) with Recovery Charts on Olmesartan

Some research indicates that parasites can affect levels of neurotransmitters, and hence behaviour. The implication is that this could apply to humans too.2)

Understanding how parasites and pathogens alter brain function and behaviour may also help us understand the suspected links between some infectious diseases and mental illness in humans.

Shelly Adamo, New Scientist

Impact of microbiota on brain function

2019 There is strong epidemiological evidence that poor diet is associated with depression. The reverse has also been shown, namely that eating a healthy diet rich in fruit, vegetables, fish and lean meat, is associated with reduced risk of depression.3)

Virtues of depression

The effects of cytokinesAny of various protein molecules secreted by cells of the immune system that serve to regulate the immune system. are not all bad, though. Naiomi Eisenberger at the University of California in Los Angeles and her colleagues have found that some people become more sensitive to social pain when they are injected with a bacterial toxin that also boosts inflammatory cytokines. In particular, a cytokineAny of various protein molecules secreted by cells of the immune system that serve to regulate the immune system. called IL-6 seems to boost activity in brain regions involved in empathy (Neuroimage, vol 47, p 881).

Depression may also cause the patient to avoid social interaction, physical exertion. Either of these reactions could be useful in various ways; conserving energy for the body to deal with real problems, avoiding contact with extra or new bacteria.

Evidence of infectious cause

Gut bacteria spotted eating brain chemicals

How gut bacteria mess with your mind

Melancholic microbes

The gut microbiota plays an important role in modulating small RNAs that influence hippocampal gene expression, a process critical to hippocampal development.4)

Psychoneuroimmunology is starting to think that the immune system can also affect our psychology

In the research field of psychoneuroimmunology, accumulating evidence has indicated the existence of reciprocal communication pathways between nervous, endocrine and immune systems. In this respect, there has been increasing interest in the putative involvement of the immune system in psychiatric disorders. Cytokines and major depression 5)

Immune suppression

Two U.S. government reports from the 1970s to 1980s provide evidence for many neuropsychiatric effects of non-thermal microwave EMFs, based on occupational exposure studies.(EMFs) produce widespread neuropsychiatric effects including depression.

In summary, then, the mechanism of action of microwave EMFs, the role of the VGCCs in the brain, the impact of non-thermal EMFs on the brain, extensive epidemiological studies performed over the past 50 years, and five criteria testing for causality, all collectively show that various non-thermal microwave EMF exposures produce diverse neuropsychiatric effects.

Immune signaling

A novel form of immune signaling revealed by transmissionAn incident in which an infectious disease is transmitted. of the inflammatory mediator serotonin between dendritic cells and T cells 6)

Co-morbidity

Association with R.A. 7)

Management

How can I control my depression?

Depression is common in Th1 diseasesThe chronic inflammatory diseases caused by bacterial pathogens.. It's important to recognize neuro symptoms as immunopathologyA temporary increase in disease symptoms experienced by Marshall Protocol patients that results from the release of cytokines and endotoxins as disease-causing bacteria are killed. so they can be managed to tolerable. See What is neuro immunopathology?

If you are having suicidal thoughts, tell someone immediately.

If your depression is intolerable, you should slow down immunopathology. See What to do when immunopathology (immune system reaction) is too strong.

Antidepressants

If slowing the immune response is ineffective, you may need to try an antidepressant. Many of the prescription antidepressant medications are compatible with the MP meds if depression is not resolved by reducing immunopathology.

Preliminary results suggest that chronic depression, in contrast to acute melancholic depression, might be characterized by increased ACTH response to CRH challenge. Short-term treatment with vagus nerve stimulation was associated with normalization of this response. 8)

Action of SSRIs 9)

High-Dose Vitamin D Does Not Prevent Depression

May 13, 2011 — Women 70 years and older who received a high dose of vitamin D3Form of vitamin D made in the skin when exposed to light. Also available in fish and meat. This secosteroid is sometimes converted into 25-D. Also known as cholecalciferol and activated 7-dehydrocholesterol. once a year for up to 5 years did not show any improvement in symptoms of depression, according to a new studypublished in the May issue of the British Journal of Psychiatry.

The finding, from the Vital D trial, calls into question the hypothesis that an annual high dose of vitamin D3 is a practical intervention to prevent depressive symptoms in older individuals, the study authors, led by Kerrie M. Sanders, PhD, of the University of Melbourne, Australia, write.

About half of community-dwelling older women in Australia have vitamin D insufficiency (< 50 nmol/L), and it has been postulated that low levels of vitamin D, which are common in winter, may contribute to seasonal affective disorder and also that older adults with vitamin D deficiency are more likely to have depressed mood.

In addition, the biochemical pathways in the brain are consistent with vitamin D playing a part in mental well-being, Dr. Sanders told Medscape Medical News.

The Vital D study was a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial involving 2258 women 70 years or older who were randomized to receive either an oral dose of vitamin D3, 500,000 IU, or placebo once a year every autumn or winter for 3 to 5 years.

The primary endpoint of the study was falls and fractures, and the women were recruited on the basis of hip fracture risk. Results of that study, which were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 2010 and reported by Medscape Medical News at the time, showed that high-dose vitamin D was associated with an increased risk for falls and fractures.

In the present study, Dr. Sanders and her group assessed a subgroup of 150 women for the effect of vitamin D on mental health. These women completed various mental health questionnaires, including the General Health Questionnaire, the 12-item Short-Form Health Survey, the World Health Organization Well-Being Index, and the Patient Global Impression Improvement scale.

Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels were measured before receiving the annual dose and again at 1 and 3 months afterward.

No Impact on Mental Health

The results showed no differences between the vitamin D and placebo groups in any of the measured outcomes of mental health, even though serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in the women in the high-dose vitamin D group were 41% higher than in the placebo group when measured 1 year after their annual dose.

In an interview Dr. Sanders said she and her team were surprised by the study findings. “We considered that better vitamin D status would be associated with improved mood.

“However,” she added, “the study was originally designed to show a reduction in falls and fractures in those on the vitamin D, but very surprisingly our results showed increased falls and fractures using the once-a-year large dose of vitamin D. So that unexpected outcome raised doubts that we would show benefit of mental health in the vitamin D group.”

For now, people should not take large doses of vitamin D, Dr. Sanders said. However, the jury is still out on small doses.

“This is particularly important as we actually found more falls and fractures in the vitamin D group. But we must remember that the adverse results relate to annual large doses and not smaller regular doses of vitamin D,”she said.

“Having adequate vitamin D status (ie, serum 25 hydroxyvitamin D levels between 60 and 75 nmol/L) is beneficial, but people should obtain their vitamin D in smaller regular doses of 800 to 1000 IU per day.”

Commenting on this study for Medscape Medical News, Glenn Currier, MD, MPH, from the University of Rochester Medical Center in New York, suggests that these findings are important but should not necessarily be extrapolated to other age groups and clinical populations.

“Findings in elderly women in high sun climates may not be relevant to younger depressed patients in the Great Lakes Cloud Belt, for example,” he said.

Br J Psychiatry. 2011;198:357-364.

Recent research

many don't respond to existing therapies and so some scientists are now exploring a new frontier - whether the immune system could be causing depression.

depression and inflammation seem closely connected. Specifically that patients with inflammatory diseases are more likely to have MDD, a large number of people with major depression show inflammatory biomarkers, and patients treated with cytokines are at increased risk of developing depression. Also inflammatory mediators have been found to alter glutamate and monoamine neurotransmission, glucocorticoid receptor resistance and hippocampal neurogenesis. Also, inflammation is able to alter brain signalling patterns, to affect cognition.

The 'cytokine hypothesis of depression' implies that proinflammatory cytokines, acting as neuromodulators, represent the key factor in the (central) mediation of the behavioural, neuroendocrine and neurochemical features of depressive disorders. This view is supported by various findings. Several medical illnesses, which are characterised by chronic inflammatory responses, e.g. rheumatoid arthritis, have been reported to be accompanied by depression. 10)

Patient experience

-Everything with me started with the diagnosis of depression then many years later Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and Lyme disease (which we know now is all the same..different color cats but all are cats) The Marshall ProtocolA curative medical treatment for chronic inflammatory disease. Based on the Marshall Pathogenesis. has put me in a place that is indescribable when it comes to my depression. I had depression (pre MP) to the point of wanting to commit suicide many times not to mention life was a struggle everyday.

Mood swings were something that was a part of daily life for me. My TH1 symptoms started as depression then came the pain, fatigue, and poor sleep, daytime sleepiness etc etc…Antidepressants saved me but never have they relieved/gotten rid of symptoms….like the MP. I am now starting to live a life I have never known. I am not the first member to note this but I am amazed at just how good things are…..Of course when I herx the depression, moods and sleep can worsen temporarily…but when I am not herxing WOW WOW WOW. I just cant say enough about it. I keep getting amazed when I see the progress I am making. It is like a dream come true….a life I have never known. ~Jeannine

- I also suffered from childhood depression, which continued to plague me much of my life - to an extent I only realized when I felt it lift upon starting the Marshall Protocol. My brain seems to work so much better and my life long biologic depression has lifted. P.Bear, RN

I used to say my son got the mania while I got the depression. I only started the MP in the hope that he would be able to do so also. (hospital staff discouraged him from doing so)

On MP my depression resolved long before CFS was reduced, but the most interesting experience was an actual day of manic symptoms I never had before… quite obviously the intensification of symptoms to be expected in the early years on the protocol. Sallie

Interviews

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<html> <div class=“patientinterviewboxl”> <div class=“patientinterviewimage”></html><html></div> <div class=“patientinterviewtext”> <div class=“patientinterviewname”></html>Doreen V. (patient's mother)<html></div></html>

autism, ADHD, depression, severe anxiety, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS)

Read the interview

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<html> <div class=“patientinterviewboxr”> <div class=“patientinterviewimage”></html><html></div> <div class=“patientinterviewtext”> <div class=“patientinterviewname”></html>Paul Albert<html></div></html>

chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), depression, food sensitivities

Read the interview

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Interviews of patients with other diseases are also available.

,

===== Notes and comments =====

<DiseaseHierarchy>

  • Legacy content

There is limited and controversial evidence that changes in the expression of cytokines and other molecules usually associated with immune function may be involved in the pathogenesis of depression. Cytokines are expressed in the brain, and during development they play important roles in normal brain embryogenesis.

A recent study revealed that induction of increased cytokine activity was associated with depressed mood in normal volunteers (Duman et al 1997). Elevated IL-6 concentrations in plasma have been reported in depressed patients (Musselman et al 2001). Should further work confirm a relationship between cytokines and depression, medications directed at cytokines might represent novel antidepressants. See Depression

Here is another scholarly article making the connection between depression and inflamation. https://psychcentral.com/news/2009/04/01/chronic-infection-may-spawn-depression/5079.html

<DiseaseHierarchy>

  • f103:

The cytokine hypothesis of depression: inflammationThe complex biological response of vascular tissues to harmful stimuli such as pathogens or damaged cells. It is a protective attempt by the organism to remove the injurious stimuli as well as initiate the healing process for the tissue., oxidative & nitrosative stress (IO&NS) and leaky gut as new targets for adjunctive treatments in depression. Minireview Michael Maes Clinical Research Center for mental Health (CRC-MH ), Olmenlaan 9, 2610 Wilrijk, Belgium. . Neuro endocrinology letters. 06/2008; 29(3):287-91. Abstract

This paper hypothesizes that inflammatory, oxidative and nitrosative (IO&NS) pathways, and an increased translocation of LPS from gram-negative bacteria are causally related to depression following external (psychological) and internal (organic) stressors and that IO&NS pathways are novel targets for antidepressant development. We review that depression is accompanied by an inflammatory reaction as indicated by an increased production of pro-inflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin-1beta (IL-1beta), IL-6, tumour necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alphaA cytokine critical for effective immune surveillance and is required for proper proliferation and function of immune cells.) and interferon-gammaAn inflammatory cytokine which causes extra mast cells to differentiate to monocytes and then to further differentiate into macrophages and dendritic cells. These phagocytes are the most active cells of the immune system and are charged with digesting bacterial pathogens. (IFN)-gamma. These cytokines are stress-sensitive and may cause depressive behaviors. The latter may be induced by an increased catabolism of tryptophan, the precursor of serotonin, to neurotoxic TRYCATs (tryptophan catabolites along the indoleamine oxidase pathway). Inflammatory biomarkers are detected in animal models of depression. Newly developed animal models of depression are based on induced inflammation. Most if not all antidepressants have specific anti-inflammatory effects. Anti-inflammatory compounds may augment the clinical efficacy of antidepressants. Depression is also accompanied by an IgM-related (auto)immune response directed against disrupted lipid membrane components, such as phosphatidyl-inositol, by-products of lipid peroxidation, e.g. azelaic acid and malondialdehyde, and NO-modified amino-acids, which are normally not detected by the immune system but due to damage caused by O&NS have become immunogenic. Increased translocation of lipopolysaccharide from gram-negative bacteria, which may be induced by internal and external stressors, may further aggravate the induced IO&NS pathways. Future research to disentangle the complex pathophysiology of depression calls for a powerful paradigm shift, i.e. using a high throughput screening according to the translational medicine methodology.

Why do clinical trials exclude depressed people? https://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/18/us-trials-idUSTRE72H31320110318

..trevor..

How can I control my depression?

Depression is common in Th1 diseases. It's important to recognize neuro symptoms as immunopathology so they can be managed to tolerable. See What is neuro immunopathology?

If you are having suicidal thoughts, tell someone immediately.

If your depression is intolerable, you should slow down immunopathology. See What to do when immunopathology (immune system reaction) is too strong.

Antidepressants

If slowing the immune response is ineffective, you may need to try an antidepressant. Many of the prescription antidepressant medications are compatible with the MP meds if depression is not resolved by reducing immunopathology.

But antidepressansts may interfere with immune system function and are not thought to be effective unless depression is severe.

See: Pro-inflammatory cytokines activate enzymes that consume the precursor to seratonin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17928982

Research: Commonly Used Antidepressants May Also Affect Human Immune System

This 2/08 article states: “Antidepressant medications appear to help only very severely depressed people and work no better than placebos in many patients, British researchers said on Monday.”

Dr. Marshall has said, ” It is a futile exercise to supplement anything except the thyroid hormones, and even that is frought with difficulty.“

Effexor is an SSRI, which are known to exert direct effects on the immune system. A much better indicator for you, potentially leading to a long term solution, is a therapeutic probeA brief trial of the Marshall Protocol to see if it will generate an immunopathological response. The "gold standard" for testing whether a patient is a good candidate for the MP. of the MP. I am sorry Doc does not understand that. You may have trouble withdrawing off Effexor, as it is purely palliative. ..Trevor..

The University of California's Wellness Newsletter, produced by their School of Public Health, says that SAM-e “is a synthetic form of a chemical produced naturally in the body. ” It is not a “natural” product or a dietary supplement.

It seems that SAM-e may produce homocysteine without supplemental folic acid. Among their other caveats, the newsletter says, “The most important problem: SAM-e is converted into homocysteine in the body. High homocysteine levels appear to raise the risk of heart disease.” https://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsSAMe.php

High homocysteine levels have also been linked to Alzheimer's. https://www.blackmores.com.au/news/news_detail.asp?art=90

If your doctor has ordered SAM-e and it is effective for intolerable depression, it's okay to continue it. Monitor your mood carefully and wean from this supplement as your depression resolves.

It's important to wean from antidepressants

Definitely, as one progresses through Phase 2 and into Phase 3, marked improvement in moods becomes apparent. Though I did not think I was reacting emotionally to events excessively prior to starting the MP, I have noticed a marked improvement with less rumination on stressful events; less volatility; and better decision making.

Though patients on anti-depressants tend to have more extreme Herx reactions and there is evidence suggesting antibiotic effects of psychiatric meds, which may be counter-productive to the intention of the MP, I do not recommend reduction of anti-depressants until symptoms improve.

Then, very gradual reduction of anti-depressants can be initiated but one should expect that it will take months and months to slowly wean off. ~Greg Blaney, MD

From some anecdotal reports: Weaning of anti-depressants may result in increased immunopathology and the need to decrease the antibiotics and adjust the MP meds accordingly.

Members' experiences

-Everything with me started with the diagnosis of depression then many years later Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and Lyme disease (which we know now is all the same..different color cats but all are cats) The Marshall Protocol has put me in a place that is indescribable when it comes to my depression. I had depression (pre MP) to the point of wanting to commit suicide many times not to mention life was a struggle everyday.

Mood swings were something that was a part of daily life for me. My TH1 symptoms started as depression then came the pain, fatigue, and poor sleep, daytime sleepiness etc etc…Antidepressants saved me but never have they relieved/gotten rid of symptoms….like the MP. I am now starting to live a life I have never known. I am not the first member to note this but I am amazed at just how good things are…..Of course when I herx the depression, moods and sleep can worsen temporarily…but when I am not herxing WOW WOW WOW. I just cant say enough about it. I keep getting amazed when I see the progress I am making. It is like a dream come true….a life I have never known. ~Jeannine

- I also suffered from childhood depression, which continued to plague me much of my life - to an extent I only realized when I felt it lift upon starting the Marshall Protocol. My brain seems to work so much better and my life long biologic depression has lifted. P.Bear, RN

See also:

Depression

Won't avoiding the sun increase my depression?

Why do I feel better in the summer? And worse in the winter?

What is neuroimmunopathology?

MENTAL ILLNESS and Th1 inflammationThe complex biological response of vascular tissues to harmful stimuli such as pathogens or damaged cells. It is a protective attempt by the organism to remove the injurious stimuli as well as initiate the healing process for the tissue.

Ideas For Summer Holidays

Paul Albert (CFS, depression, food sensitivities)

s372:

I just thought it d be interesting to see if anyone does anything of a supportive nature like relaxation, tai chi or anything and how that helps or not. It would be interesting as I think it is fairly wel shown that the immune system responds to positive emotions although not all experiments were reloable due to vested interest but on the whole the info is there.

Having had and having neuro symptoms I guess there are times when nothing seems to help when we go through that but other opinions would be interesting.

Best wishes to all

Rich

Rich : chest pain. Lyme 16 months (as of Apr 2006). Nothing helped. 25(OH)D 18.5 ng/ml. 1,25 (OH)2D 37pg/ml not frozen so could be higher. MP begun 1/7/06. Suspected mitochondrial failure issues- heart, energy levels. Carole Board Staff

Joined: Tue Jul 20th, 2004 Location: Indiana USA Posts: 633 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 11:14

Quote Reply

Hello, Rich!

I had always been engaged throughout my life in various forms of exercise with structured programs and relaxation techniques; but during the past few years, experiencing the miracle of healing and enjoying new-found wellness from the MP provide the positive support that satisfies my emotional needs.

I look forward to soon returning to a more formal exercise program; but in the meantime, “smelling the roses” from this long-awaited renewal is my euphoric confirmation.

This link may address past documentations that might be of interest–

range of motion exercises

Best wishes and take care! . . . Carole

PWC 50+ yrs| 20+ CFS FM Pituitary Thyroid IBS Cardiac OA Migraines +ANA Osteoporosis 2/04 Mediastinoscopy ~Sarc Story |1/04 1/06: 125D=85,34; 25D=41,14| ACE=68,43| tickbite Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 379 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 15:13

Quote Reply

Hi!

I've practiced yoga for a few years. Now more than ever my practice has pyschologically and emotionally helped me to realize the intent behind my illness and recovery. Like I tell a lot of people, yoga is much much more than a physical exercise. Yoga (in my practice) is:

(1) Yama (The five “abstentions”): violence, lying, theft, (illicit) sex, and possessions (2) Niyama (The five “observances”): purity, contentment, austerities, study, and surrender to god (3) Asana: Literally means “seat”, and in Patanjali's Sutras refers to seated positions used for meditation. Later, with the rise of Hatha yoga, asana came to refer to all the “postures” (4) Pranayama (“Life Force Control”): Control of prāna, life force, or vital energy (5) Pratyahara (“Abstraction”): Reversal of the sense organs (6) Dharana (“Concentration”): Fixing the attention on a single object (7) Dhyana (“Meditation”): Intense contemplation of the true nature of reality (8) Samadhi (“Liberation”): Super-conscious state of enlightenment wiki. Most people are familiar with Asana, the physical postures. As you can see meditation and concentration attainments come in very handy when dealing with our body's healing. Persons such as Jon Kabat-Zinn (Full Catastrophe Living) use meditation and mindfullness practices to promote well-being and positive mental attitudes and all of the other “new age” words most people are afraid of hearing because it means to be aware of your being

As far as yoga promoting physical wellness, i'm sure everyone knows of it's potential. However, it's true potential on all levels is what is not well understood. Even I am an amateur and have much more to learn. I know that yoga stimulates the body's own “innate” functioning. Yoga is very integrative in terms of stimulating lymphatic fluid movement, bile and mucousal excretion/creation, digestion, cellular/nutrient movement, CSF homogenation/pressure equalization (kinda like self achieved cranio osteopathy) and placating attention to micro and macro regions of the physical self. All in my humble opinion not that I can substantiate that with a pubmed publication I guess for those who are interested, you'll have to find out for yourself.

~Grego

“Lyme”,”CFS“, Meningitis Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007

prugg21 Health Professional

Joined: Wed Mar 15th, 2006 Location: Benson, Arizona, USA Posts: 303 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 16:10

Quote Reply

Hi Rich,

What has actually helped improve my mood before when I'm extremely irritable, tense, frustrated, etc. is to do something creative that occupies my entire mind, body and soul for a period of time. I've found you don't have to be good at it, you just really have to like doing it, whatever it is.

For me, it can be colored pencil drawing, needlepoint or making things like quilts, pillows and clothes. But for others it could be any number of other things such as night time gardening, painting or other artwork or crafts, playing a musical instrument, writing songs, poetry, short stories. Oh and let's not forget journal writing, that's really helpful in picking up my mood, just to write about everything you're feeling sometimes can be a huge release as well as you get more in touch with yourself and not take out your feelings on your family and loved ones.

I hope you find what's fitting for you.

Pam

Last edited on Sat Jan 20th, 2007 16:11 by prugg21

MCS/CFS/FM,22+yrs,Gerd,migraines,insomnia,avoiding light & D,NoIRSSpecial sunglasses worn by Marshall Protocol patients to block light.,benicar 3/30/06 40mg Q4-6H,mino,4/18/06,mod/ph2- 10/17/06,probx,estriol, 3/06-25D=27,9/06-25D=26,11/06-25D=21,4/07-25D=22,7/07-25D=19 kathleen Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Wed Jul 14th, 2004 Location: New York, New York USA Posts: 352 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 17:34

Quote Reply

Hi Rich,

I've been doing Buddhist meditation for almost 20 years now. It doesn't kill bacteria, but it's helped me with patience, and clarity, which in turn is good for compliance on the MP. Then the meds can help my immune system to do the killing.

I also use inter library loan alot and read very current books whihc keeps me from feeling quite so removed from everything, and I get new and old movies from Netflix. Then when I occasionally see people it's not like I'm living on some other planet.

Best luck and no giving up - Kathleen

CFS '86, LTD '86 (50 yrs old)pacemaker - total heart block '99 fatigue, cognitive, sleep, digestion, dysautonomia, weakness, headache, tinnitus, IC, new anemia 9/9/04 D,25 44 - D,125 76 4/05 D,25 24 4/05 Ben 40mg/6hrs, Mod Ph 2 tgritton Member in Phase 3

Joined: Mon Oct 10th, 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, California USA Posts: 96 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sat Jan 20th, 2007 20:33

Quote Reply

On several occasions during my early MP I used a relaxation audio on an iPod to relieve cardiac arrhythmias (very irregular heartbeats). This had a very positive effect on my mood in that it lessened anxiety.

Last edited on Sat Jan 20th, 2007 20:43 by tgritton

Lyme arrhythmia 125D76 25D39 Benicar Nov05 ModPh1May06 ModPh2Oct06 Ph2Jun07 Ph3Dec07 25D<4(Aug08) 0Meds 0Supps Lite90%<30lx otherwise NoIRs 2layer clothes gloves hat +-ZnO Rich23 Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Sat Apr 8th, 2006 Location: Inverness, United Kingdom Posts: 96 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sun Jan 21st, 2007 09:27

Quote Reply

Hi folks Im pleased that you are finding useful adjuncts to the Mp. Id be interested to see overall whether this stuff boosts the immune system and has a result in terms of treatment length etc although without a big controlled study we couldnt tell.

I personally have just started Contemplative Prayer..a Western method very similar in technique to Eastern meditations..and even though its been only for a short time as yet I am finding more peace as a sort of background level and my wife says im different although she cant put her finger on what that actually is.

Best wishes to you all

Rich

Rich : chest pain. Lyme 16 months (as of Apr 2006). Nothing helped. 25(OH)D 18.5 ng/ml. 1,25 (OH)2D 37pg/ml not frozen so could be higher. MP begun 1/7/06. Suspected mitochondrial failure issues- heart, energy levels. tickbite Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 379 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sun Jan 21st, 2007 14:14

Quote Reply

“Id be interested to see overall whether this stuff boosts the immune system and has a result in terms of treatment length etc although without a big controlled study we couldnt tell.”

In which case Rich, perhaps you would find this book interesting:

“Healing and the Mind”

Part III is extremely interesting:

chemical communicators with candice pert

emotions and the immune system with margaret kemmeny

the brain and the immune system with robert ader

all PhDs

if you look hard enough the books and research are already out there.

best,

~Grego

“Lyme”,”CFS“, Meningitis Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007

Rich23 Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Sat Apr 8th, 2006 Location: Inverness, United Kingdom Posts: 96 Status: Offline 

Posted: Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 09:46

Quote Reply

Hi Grego

Thnaks for your reply. I have a lot of stuff like that..I was specifically referring to the effect these approaches may have on us CWD bacteria sufferers if any. Unfortunately we are not in a position to measure that yet but it would be useful to correlate length of time ill, length of time and type of complementary work and MP duration to see.

Al the best

Rich

Rich : chest pain. Lyme 16 months (as of Apr 2006). Nothing helped. 25(OH)D 18.5 ng/ml. 1,25 (OH)2D 37pg/ml not frozen so could be higher. MP begun 1/7/06. Suspected mitochondrial failure issues- heart, energy levels. Joy Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Mon Aug 1st, 2005 Location: Seattle Area, USA Posts: 250 Status: Offline 

Posted: Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 11:46

Quote Reply

Hi Rich. I think contemplative prayer sounds great; it is similar to other types of meditation, I think. I have done a little of that recently in sessions at a beautiful church – the beauty of the surroundings helps a lot, though I'd imagine you could set up your own space with a candle, etc. (though I've found that candles hurt my eyes now that I'm on the MP).

One thing that I find immediately helps with wound up emotional states is something called EFT, or Emotional Freedom Technique. It is essentially a quick tapping routine whilst repeating the negative thought, whatever it is that's bothering you. You tap at acupuncture meridian points which supposedly releases the negative impact of the emotion as you state it. It actually works pretty instantaneously for all sorts of stress situations. Check out https://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse.htm to see how it's done. I just do the abbreviated, 7-point tap, only takes a minute.

Best regards, Joy

CFS, FM, MCS, RA, Uveitis, Neuropathy, MGUS, porphyria, low thyroid. Non-MP Meds: Armour Thyroid, Lotemax steroid eye drop (3/day). Milk thistle, lutein, calcium, probiotics. NoIRs, gloves, hat. Began Ph 1 9/06, Phase 2 1/07. 25D: 32,17,5,4,4 jillian Member in Phase 2

Joined: Tue Sep 7th, 2004 Location: Rural Southwestern, North Dakota USA Posts: 278 Status: Offline 

Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 04:50

Quote Reply

Rich,

I actively cultivate an “attitude of gratitude.”

Whenever I get moody I will stop and think (meditate) about what in this situation can I be grateful for. It rarely doesn't work; but it can be tough depending on my immune response!

I also listen to nature sound cds–without music, like these https://www.somersetent.com/store/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=20 from Dan Gibson. I love music, but it can be a real stressor if my immune response is high.

'til later, Jillian

PrimryDX-PulmoSarc79,FMS,CFIDS,etc,disabled93. AvoidD/Noirs Aug02. Oct02: 1,25D=42 NTfrzen; Apr05:25D=10. P1 Oct05-Feb06; ModP2C Feb-Nov06; P2 Nov14-Dec06; ModP2BSS Jan-Mar07; ModP2CBSS Mar07-. Noirs & total light control in house. Rich23 Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Sat Apr 8th, 2006 Location: Inverness, United Kingdom Posts: 96 Status: Offline 

Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 14:22

Quote Reply

Hi Joy and Jillian

Thank you for your posts.

At the moment my cenring prayer are done laying down indoors due to my level of illness but your church sounds beautiful. Ive tried the EFt tsuff myself but it didnt help..certain peple suit certain methods I guess.

Music CDs of nature sounds are great arent they? I also like chants and devotional songs.

I think gratitude is importnat too, its easy to lose track of the fact that the world suffers outside our little worlds when our own trials are great.

So hers to you both ..toasted with a half full cup

Rich

Rich : chest pain. Lyme 16 months (as of Apr 2006). Nothing helped. 25(OH)D 18.5 ng/ml. 1,25 (OH)2D 37pg/ml not frozen so could be higher. MP begun 1/7/06. Suspected mitochondrial failure issues- heart, energy levels. Guss Wilkinson Member in Phase 3

Joined: Wed Sep 8th, 2004 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 128 Status: Offline 

Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 15:09

Quote Reply

Hi All

It is not always possible to do anything about the mood swings. Sometimes, you just are in a 'hair-trigger' mode ready to bite the heads off your loved ones for having the audacity to actually breathe in the same room as you; or just the slightest set back will send you into a wirlpool of self-pity.

What helped me is to understand the real cause of the mood, take a deep breath and count to ten before you bite the wife's head off, or get out the razor blades. It actually takes practice.

You have to get used to apologising a lot - I have said some pretty hurtful things to a lot of people that mean a lot to me. You also have to make those around you realise that they are the true heroes just for putting up with you.

It does help to distract yourself from your plight - in my case I did it with study and socialising (both with friends and through the Karate club that I run with my wife). Exercise helps to (even in a very limited form).

All of these things take great effort. What I have found, though, is that there is an energy reserve. Your brain will tell you to stop well before you actually have to stop, so look very hard to try and find that reserve. You will feel that you are running on fumes most of the time but there is a distinct quality of life improvement if you make it a habbit to stop listening to your body/mind.

Then there is the drinkies. Having a couple of glasses of wine to your meal, or beer with you friends or even something stronger for those special occasions actually gave me a brief feeling of normality - doesn't work for all, but it did for me.

Thankfully, all this is behind me now.

I knew very early on that the MP was/is the right thing and knowing that you have taken command of your own illness, instead of being a victim, is great fuel for the determination.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Guss

s61:

Depression

Scientists find new link between depression and inflammation

1st September 2006 By Staff Writer Pharmaceutical Business Online

Individuals with major depression have an exaggerated inflammatory response to psychological stress compared to those who do not suffer from depression, according to a study by researchers at Emory University School of Medicine.

The findings may open up new treatment avenues for patients suffering from inflammatory disorders and depression.

Because an overactive inflammatory response may contribute to a number of medical disorders as well as to depression, the findings suggest that increased inflammatory responses to stress in depressed patients may be a link between depression and other diseases, including heart disease, as well as contributing to depression itself. Results of the study, led by Dr Andrew Miller, and Dr Christine Heim, of Emory's Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, are published in the American Journal of Psychiatry.

“Several examples of increased resting inflammation in depressed patients already exist in the literature, but this is the first time anyone has shown evidence to suggest that the inflammatory response to stress may be greater in depressed people,” says Dr Miller.

The study included 28 medically healthy male participants, half of whom were diagnosed with major depression and half of whom were not depressed. The participants were exposed to two moderately stressful situations during a 20-minute time period.

Blood was collected every 15 minutes starting immediately before and then up to an hour and a half after the test to check for key indicators of inflammation. The researchers measured levels of a pro-inflammatory cytokine (a regulatory protein secreted by the immune system) called interleukin-6, and the activity of a pro-inflammatory signaling molecule in white blood cells called nuclear factor-kB. While at rest (before the stress challenge), the depressed patients had increased inflammation relative to the control group. Both the depressed and the healthy groups showed an inflammatory response to the stress challenge, but people who were currently depressed exhibited the greatest increases of interleukin-6 and nuclear factor-kB.

“While inflammation is essential for us to fight bacterial and viral infections, too much inflammation can cause harm,” says Dr Miller. “There's always some collateral damage when the immune system gets fired up, and we now believe that too much inflammation, either at rest or during stress, may predispose people to become depressed or stay depressed.”

In addition, medical research over the last decade has shown that runaway inflammation may play a role in a number of disorders, including heart disease, cancer, and diabetes, all of which have been associated with depression.

IL-6 levels decrease with SSRI treatment in patients with major depression

Scientists build on case connecting inflammatory disease and depression https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-07/uoia-sbo072704.php and https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/07/040728084924.htm

Dr. Marshall's comment: Give them a decade or two and they might be able to figure it all out

Research: Commonly Used Antidepressants May Also Affect Human Immune System 01-24-2006 Source: Georgetown University Medical Center

Drugs that treat depression by manipulating the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain may also affect the user's immune system in ways that are not yet understood, say scientists from Georgetown University Medical Center and a Canadian research institute.

That's because the investigators found, for the first time, that serotonin is passed between key cells in the immune system, and that the chemical is specifically used to activate an immune response.

They do not know yet, however, whether these SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) drugs “including the brands Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil and others” could have either a beneficial or a damaging effect on human immunity.

“The wider health implication is that commonly used SSRI antidepressants, which target the uptake of serotonin into neurons, may also impact the uptake in immune cells,” said Gerard Ahern, Ph.D., assistant professor of Pharmacology at Georgetown and lead researcher on the study.

He said that while it may be possible that SSRI drugs may restore a healthy immune function in people who are depressed and prone to infections, it is possible that they might also bolster immunity to the point that they trigger autoimmune disease. “At this point we just don't know how these drugs might affect immunity, so we really need to clarify the normal role of serotonin in immune cell functioning,” Ahern said.

The surprising finding that serotonin is rapidly passed between immune cells in a manner similar to its transmission between brain neurons was revealed in mid-October, when the research team published the findings in the journal Blood. In December, the discovery was highlighted for the general scientific audience by the journal Nature Reviews Immunology, and now the research team is working to produce an animal model that may help describe the precise nature of this interaction.

“The novelty is that we reveal a potential communication, involving the transmitter serotonin, between immune cells that is normally only found between neurons,” Ahern said.

In addition to Ahern, Peta Connell, Ph.D., from the Robarts Research Institute in Canada, was also a co-lead researcher on the study. Scientists from the Robarts Research Institute also contributed to the work.

In the brain, serotonin transmission between neurons is associated with feelings of pleasure, mood, and appetite, and the class of antidepressants known as SSRIs keeps serotonin active within the synaptic spaces between neurons, enhancing the chemical's positive effects. Unlike in the brain, which uses chemical messengers to communicate between nerve cells, the immune system is believed to “converse” through physical contact – one type of immune cell touches another, setting off a response.

Specifically, “antigen presenting cells” display their antigens (bits of a foreign invader) to T-cells, and a resulting physical coupling between the antigens and the T-cells will prompt the T-cells to divide and expand in population, triggering an immune response designed to destroy the invader. This process may take hours.

What the Georgetown researchers found, however, is that dendritic cells – the most powerful of the antigen-presenting cells and the ones that can find invaders that have never infected the body and “educate” the immune system to fight them – also use serotonin to quickly excite a T-cell response. They discovered that these dendritic cells can rapidly secrete serotonin, which activates serotonin receptors on certain types of T-cells.

“In addition to the physical contact, it surprised us to find that these immune cells also have machinery to take up serotonin and to secrete it in an excitatory manner,” Ahern said. “The point behind this transmission is not entirely clear, but it appears to be an additional way of stimulating a T cell response.”

Drugs that block serotonin reuptake “likely change some of the parameters of T-cell activation, but we don't know yet if it enhances or inhibits the total immune response,” Ahern said. “But it is something that should be explored because we really have no idea what SSRIs are doing to people's immune systems.”

From inflammation to sickness and depression: when the immune system subjugates the brain

When activation of the peripheral immune system continues unabated, such as during systemic infections, cancer or autoimmune diseases, the ensuing immune signalling to the brain can lead to an exacerbation of sickness and the development of symptoms of depression in vulnerable individuals. PMID: 18073775

The immune-mediated alteration of serotonin and glutamate: towards an integrated view of depression.

An immune activation including increased production of proinflammatory cytokines has repeatedly been described in MD.

PMID: 17457312

See also:

How can I control my depression?

DEPRESSION thread

Won't avoiding the sun increase my depression?

Why do I feel better in the summer? And worse in the winter?

s347:

Since I started cutting out Vit D in all ways diiet and sunlihgt my moods have been very up and down and bouts of euphoria, weepyness and good old anxiety rearing it ugly head, Is this normal or am I lossing it again ?Maggie

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 Aussie Barb Research Team

Joined: Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 19485 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 15:31

Quote Reply

Hi Maggie

Cutting light and Vitamin D will cause a shift in the hormones.. and may cause these symptoms as the body seeks homeostasis….

It is important to be constant in the light and D avoidance also, to have less fluctuations.. and starting the benicar may help.. Dr M recommends no bromelain (wobenzym) with MP.

You may also wish to use your Rx anxiety meds as per Dr Rx to help you..

Barb…

Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search| maggie weeks Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Fri Jan 28th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 109 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sun May 15th, 2005 22:29

Quote Reply

Dear Barb, thank you for your advice, my own Dr Blaney said I may be having small herxes which may contribute to the up and down emotions I have had. I am still awaiting more tests an EMG and lower backand sacroiliac Xray, still using NOirs and covering up. I contacted my head docor and he said OK for use of anti anxiety drug when needed and I will continue with relaxation and meditation

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 LeAnne Member in Phase 3

Joined: Thu Apr 21st, 2005 Location: Augusta, Georgia USA Posts: 734 Status: Offline 

Posted: Wed May 18th, 2005 14:26

Quote Reply

Maggie,

I know for me I've had some emotional ups and downs. I think the lifestyle change is hard, not only for the patient, but also for the whole family. These changes put a damper on your social life and your being able to go out to eat ect. Staying inside all day is depressing too. I think this is part of my feelings of depression. I have three teenagers and a husband who are used to me doing everything. Now the roles have changed. They are frustrated because of the changes. This adds to the depression. You feel isolated and alone. I'm thankful to have this web site to be able to communicate with others who understand. I think communicating is the best therapy.

LeAnne

Neuro-Sarcoidosis/lungs, spleen, nervous system, skin lesions, 125D66, MP 8/05, Ph1 3/06, Ph3 7/06, NoIRs, low lux home, cover up, 25D9 Sep07 Mkap2nd Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Mon Apr 4th, 2005 Location: Old Bridge, New Jersey USA Posts: 232 Status: Offline 

Posted: Wed May 18th, 2005 14:45

Quote Reply

I think that that is a key component to this. The isolation and loneliness are very difficult. I also know that not seeing the spring and its beauty is a bummer.

chronic neuro tick illnesses asthma| Pos proteins in CSF Pos tau protein| 1,25D/27.5 25/8.3| light & D avoid 4/10/05| NoIRs| BENI 40/4-5hrs, mino 5/12- CLefelt Member in Phase 3

Joined: Sun Oct 24th, 2004 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 318 Status: Offline 

Posted: Wed May 18th, 2005 16:06

Quote Reply

I so agree. Herxing is a bummer but if I could go out in the sun and mingle with my neighbors, or sit on my porch in the mild spring air and see the buds opening, I'm sure I'd feel more emotionally 'up'. Not so deprived.

But, it is what it is and, there's always next year.

To Mkap2nd,

Wow. Four tick bourne diseases! You really hit the jackpot. Good luck as you whomp those buggers.

Carol

Lyme Bartonella CFS FM Chly Pneu; Klonopin Florinef Lexapro TriEst Prog 10/04: 25D=9 1,25D=70 4/05 4/06: 25D=6.2 1,25D=20.9 8/06:25D=<7 1,25=13; Mino 11/36/04 2Abx 3/19/05 3Abx 4/27/06 DianaB Member

Joined: Sun Apr 17th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Canada Posts: 18 Status: Offline 

Posted: Wed May 18th, 2005 19:54

Quote Reply

Maggie,

I have been going through exactly the same thing-I can't believe the overhelming feeling of just not caring about anything-this has been especially true since wearing my noirs and being very strict about avoiding light and vit. D-this feeling is very new to me -even in the last year and a half as my symptoms got a lot worse, I never experienced these feelings-being isolated in my cave -although it is a very nice cave- and watching the world go by is hard. I try to go outside for a little while and walk around my yard after the sun goes down and get some fresh air-that seems to help a little.

It is going to be a long summer-but I am willing to give up a summer to have my life back.

Your fellow Vancouverite

bartolla, rikettsia, clinical borrelia, tick bite and emg rash aprox 15 yrs ago,March/05 25mg pulsed mino,disc after 2 weeks, Benicar since 4/04/05 40mg/6-8 hrs, avoid sun/vit d, noirs 12d=38.4 25d=30.4, back on mino 25mg every 2nd day May 15/05 Mkap2nd Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Mon Apr 4th, 2005 Location: Old Bridge, New Jersey USA Posts: 232 Status: Offline 

Posted: Wed May 18th, 2005 20:04

Quote Reply

Carol, Thanks for recognizing the load. It's made it interesting. I know that any tick borne illness is bad. My son had just Lme and it took much heartache and suffering until it left him be. It's not easy and as you said I'm lonely and the things that got me by have now been removed. I miss the spring, my swing, running, my neighbors etc. BUT IT IS AS IT IS AND WILL BE. AND WILL END!!!!

Last edited on Wed May 18th, 2005 20:06 by Mkap2nd

chronic neuro tick illnesses asthma| Pos proteins in CSF Pos tau protein| 1,25D/27.5 25/8.3| light & D avoid 4/10/05| NoIRs| BENI 40/4-5hrs, mino 5/12- maggie weeks Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Fri Jan 28th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 109 Status: Offline 

Posted: Wed May 18th, 2005 22:45

Quote Reply

Dear Dianna B, thank you for your words of support fellow Vancouverite, I have to work under florescent lighting so I am on a modified MP at present and so far I am keeping in contact with friends etc.< But I had 2 years of deep despair when I had a major depressive disorder and nothing can beat that for me. It was mostly chemically driven by wrong meds long story. I had 6 months on my hands and knees before being diagnosed with a sequested disc and had emergency surgury after being told it was all in my head!! Well we all have our stories

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 maggie weeks Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Fri Jan 28th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 109 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 00:26

Quote Reply

Would you like to receive a private email from me? Maggie Weeks

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 Big John Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 258 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 02:51

Quote Reply

Hi All!

Normally lately I have not replied to posts, because of my eyesight however, this one I could not resist. I have Liz (Boss) on the keyboard!

Maggie, you are so right about the depression and emotional ups and downs. My opinion is that we suffer from a seasonal type disorder. Many people suffer from this during winter when the sunlight changes affect the harmonal balance. This coupled with the harmonal changes of the MP really can cause a whopper of a time.

My experience has provided me with some ways to deal with the depression. first, I was so frustrated that I could not enjoy the Spring, then I realized I was limiting myself and that it was just not true.. I have had to adjust, but I do enjoy the season. First, I make it a point to sit outside and enjoy the evening sunset, just after it goes down. Liz and I continue our evening with a evening meal outside. Second, my experience shows me that probiotic helps with the blues. Don't ask me how or why, but it does seem to help me.

My major problem that seems to depress me the most is that I often seem to focus in black and whte.. I sometimes think that I must stay inside all the time, I think that I must deprive myself of shopping or getting my favorite coffee at the local starbucks. With some careful planning I have been able to adjust my schedule and have begun to enjoy many of life's pleasures again by simply adjusting my thoughts.

Several times I have thought about giving up the protocol because of emotional frustration, and I am sure many others have acted on their feelings. When this happens I do just that.. I take a break. I took a month off (unintentionally) when I was on vacation. Upon returning to the states I resumed the protocol and had a renewed energy and attitude.

Lastly, I have found that there are several prescription alternatives that are very helpful and have not interfered with the MP.

My experience has taught me that much of my depression is created by feeling that I have no choices and that I am bound by the protocol, when in fact I do have many options and of course there are the positive results, better health!!! Keep smiling!

Reiters Syndrome, Benicar 9/23/04. Mdx: Sotolol, atenolol, spironolactone, amlodipine,alprazolam, lexapro, Benicar q8. Ph2 12/05. Ph3 5/06 Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team

Joined: Sat Jul 10th, 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA Posts: 6956 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 03:06

Quote Reply

Big John, Good to hear from you again. We have a new antibiotic combo for phase 2 that seems to be doing a better job on eye inflammation. Please take a good look over the recent posts in the Phase 2/3 forums.

..Trevor..

Tobi Member

Joined: Sat Sep 25th, 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 411 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 03:18

Quote Reply

Hi Big John,

Welcome back. You've been missed.

Tobi

CFS,Rickettsia Conoori-,HHV6,Ureaplasma(all 3 culture,PCR) 25D 16.4ng/ml,1.25D 26pg/ml.Ratio 1,3 Blood probably NOT frozen Benicar 9/18/04 Mino 100mg 10/18/04 Phase 2 01/26/05 maggie weeks Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Fri Jan 28th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 109 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 11:34

Quote Reply

Thank you John I am more settled this week after talking to my head Doc. I find rreturning to mediation has really helped me and I decided while in meditation.To do the things that give me joy in life.such as spending more time with my 3 cats, painting and being creative. Contacting old freinds and watching up beat movies. Catching up on old photos and making creative albums. trying new recipes and buying plants for my garden.

I make a list of the things that give me joy and I go to bed and try and think of things tp be grateful for. After all the a MP is not a terminal disease, it has a happy ending. I have 4 friends with terminal cancer right now, one friend died before Xmas NTwo have been Oncology doctors, they taught me so much, live for the day ,each day is a new one wirh new challenges and hopefully new joy. I finsh work in June so will have to make a decision whether to take the plunge now or wait for fall

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 kathleen Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Wed Jul 14th, 2004 Location: New York, New York USA Posts: 352 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 18:38

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The good news is that there will be another spring next year, and another the year aftet that. And I can't quite bear to imagine how wonderful they might be after recovery.

For now I'm going out after dark with my headlamp on to putter in the garden, after whole (boring) days spent in bed. When the moon is full it's glorious. It's quiet and there are no people bothering me. The lilacs seem to be more fragrant, and the outlines of the trees are beautiful. I suspect that once I recover I'll continue with night time gardening.

Kathleen

CFS '86, LTD '86 (50 yrs old)pacemaker - total heart block '99 fatigue, cognitive, sleep, digestion, dysautonomia, weakness, headache, tinnitus, IC, new anemia 9/9/04 D,25 44 - D,125 76 4/05 D,25 24 4/05 Ben 40mg/6hrs, Mod Ph 2 maggie weeks Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Fri Jan 28th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 109 Status: Offline 

Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 22:23

Quote Reply

Dear Leanne, thanks for replying to my post. All I can say is that you can only do your best, even when you are ill. As long as you realise that for a change you are the one that needs looking after,after all you have definatley been the strong one, running the house and family.Mine have grown up, but I have certainly had to rely on hubby for at least 2 years when I was flat out on my back and 2 years of deep depression. He took a whole year off work and believe it or not by taking baby steps at a time and having ridden may roller coasters we made it. Now we are to struggle with another health challenge and I feel so lucky to have cyberspace as a support system and to know that are people around who understand the road to recovery.I found who my true friends were, but I feel it was a life lesson and now through my job I can help other people I think these challenges are sent to us for a reason . Good luck and I hope we can chat again. Maggie

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 scooker48 Member in Phase 3

Joined: Tue Jan 4th, 2005 Location: Sunnyvale, California USA Posts: 826 Status: Offline 

Posted: Fri May 20th, 2005 10:21

Quote Reply

One trick which I've discovered is giving a close careful listen to music. Its almost as if I hear more with the reduction in bright lights and sunshine, or possibly I'm able to concentrate more. Beethoven's 5th symphony, which is SO well known, has so much substance that I am captivated. There is SO MUCH to explore if I remember to think and be creative.

Through another source, a Ph.D. bacteriologist, I learned that these bacteria which cause trouble are found in potting soil. Be careful, gardeners! If anyone wants a copy of the email message, I will send it by PM.

Thank goodness for this community. Sherry

Necrotizing granulomas biopsy 10/88; Dx 12/04 Sarcoid liver spleen. 2/2/05: VitD 25/VitD125 62. 11/18/08 D25 <4.0 L, Liver function normal 4/08; Wear NoIRs outside & for computer screen time. No K creme used. maggie weeks Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Fri Jan 28th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 109 Status: Offline 

Posted: Fri May 20th, 2005 13:49

Quote Reply

I agree with the music, it is a wonderful form to relax and take us away from our problems and transport us to another world. Thanks for the tip about potting soil. I wil get my hubby to do the tubs this year , sob sob !!!Maggie

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 Meg Mangin R.N. Former Team Member

Joined: Sat Jul 10th, 2004 Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin USA Posts: 17283 Status: Offline 

Posted: Fri May 20th, 2005 23:28

Quote Reply

Sherry,

Please do not be overly concerned about your exposure to potting soil. The bacteria that cause chronic inflammatory diseases are found in many places. We would be living an extremely narrow existence if we were to try to avoid them in all the locations they might be found. Please see:

CELL WALL DEFICIENT BACTERIA AND THE MARSHALL PROTOCOL

Best,

Meg

Nothing contained in this site is or should be considered, or used as a substitute for, medical advice, diagnosis or treatment by your physician. ShrnHml Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Sat Jul 17th, 2004 Location: St. Louis, Missouri USA Posts: 814 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 11:03

Quote Reply

Kathleen,

I, too, have become enamoured of nighttime gardening…..my headlamp is so amazing. I never could stand the heat in the daytime…..now I know why. It's so great now with cool weather, but I want to ask you how you plan to handle mosquito season, which is almost upon us?

TIA….Sharon

s348:

I have to say that on Benicar I felt more emotional and fragile. Now that I have had to stop the MP I am feeling physically better but still more emotional. Of course I have some very emotional things going on right now.

One of the symptoms of my CFS is anxiety and I was hoping to get rid of it with this protocol. I'm not on any mediations for anxiety but I am thinking about it.

I was wondering if anxiety is a symptom of Sarcoidosis? I don't have sarc but I didn't know if the lyme and sarc people experience the same anxiety symptoms.I know that the fibro people have anxiety as a symptom.

On the lighter side a mommy duck has taken up residence in my back yard and has a nest with about six eggs in it. I think my dog ate a couple eggs before I discovered the nest. But now I am supervising my dogs trips outside. It is very strange since I live in the city.

Judy

CFS viral onset 1986 1-25D-53,25D-12 1/5 NoirSpecial sunglasses worn by Marshall Protocol patients to block light.'s/D avoid July04/ Beni 3/22/05 40mg q6h Stop Benicar 4/23/05 Restart Beni 8/13/05,Valium maggie weeks Member in Phase 2/3

Joined: Fri Jan 28th, 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 109 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 00:12

Quote Reply

Dear Judy, I have just read your reply to my post on anxiety. From my experience going on anti anxiety meds , changed my life, I was able to go out and get a volunteer job which I now do 3 days a week. I went from not being able to drive or be alone to driving though Paris last year when my husband was to ill to drive, to taking a flight on my own to UK ,to going on a retreat and sleeping alone. Sometimes we need a little help along the way. Good luck with your duckings, I have 3 cats who would love your house!! Yum Yum!!Maggie Weeks

Bartonella muscle pain weak pelvic instab neck instab Lumbar nerve demyl occip headaches thoracic pain| Clonazepam Celexa 40mg| CutD&light 5/05| BeniQ6H Oct05| 1,25D=54 25D=29/ Apr06 25D=15| Mino Nov05| Phase 2 Apr06 Meg Mangin R.N. Former Team Member

Joined: Sat Jul 10th, 2004 Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin USA Posts: 17283 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 00:57

Quote Reply

Judy,

Maggie gave you good advice. Anxiety is a common symptom of all Th1 inflammatory diseases. If you expect the MP to resolve your anxiety, you should expect that anxiety to get worse before it gets better. When any symptoms are intolerable, including anxiety, you should ask your doctor about medication to relieve it until the underlying cause can be taken care of with the MP.

Anxiety can be terribly debilitating and most doctors take it seriously. In the past, all we had was palliative medication but now you can treat the cause and recover.

Best,

Meg

Nothing contained in this site is or should be considered, or used as a substitute for, medical advice, diagnosis or treatment by your physician. jolbell69 Health Professional

Joined: Sun Jul 18th, 2004 Location: Middlesbrough, United Kingdom Posts: 316 Status: Offline 

Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 12:39

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Dear Judy,

I am testament to the fact that med`s can help in these situations. I have been very ill for 5 years now, and one of my worse symptoms was the anxiety / restlessness / agitation/panic. It was so difficult to cope with. I refused any help in the way of med`s for 4 years, and then, after starting the MP last June, I decided enough was enough!! I slowly ramped up to a dose of 20mg Prozac per day. It has been one of the best things I have ever done!! My mood has stabalised, I don`t have as many panic attacks, and my confidence has increased dramatically.

I was diagnosed with CFS, then Chronic Borreliosis - I think the 2 are very closely related, as are all Th 1 illnesses. Sometimes a little help with these things can make all the difference. Of course, I hope that with time, and the MP, I will be able to come off the Prozac.

I wish you luck with whichever choice you make.

Jo.

DX:ChronicBorreliosis&Bartonella,ME/CFS,AutoimmuneThyroid&Hypoadrenia. TX:Armour90mg,Cortef10mg,Florinef0.1mg,Prozac.StartedMP:25June04. 25,D=16.7ng/ml,(Jan05)No1,25Ddone.Benicar,20mg,q6h.Started Phase I:19May05.Started Phase II:16Sept05 JudyBeauty Member in Phase 3

Joined: Sat Jul 17th, 2004 Location: Highland, Indiana USA Posts: 173 Status: Offline 

Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 00:07

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Thanks everyone for your advise. I am going to talk to my doctor on Monday. He had suggested something for anxiety on my last visit but I put it off. I'm ok if there is nothing stressful going on but right now things are tense.

Any suggestions on which medication to take or not take? I've only taken Valium and Xanax a couple to times and I didn't like the way I felt and my hair started falling out with both medications.

I would love to get up in front of a bunch of people and feel at ease. I just got a summons for jury duty. There is no way that is going to happen.

Judy

CFS viral onset 1986 1-25D-53,25D-12 1/5 Noir's/D avoid July04/ Beni 3/22/05 40mg q6h Stop Benicar 4/23/05 Restart Beni 8/13/05,Valium Meg Mangin R.N. Former Team Member

Joined: Sat Jul 10th, 2004 Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin USA Posts: 17283 Status: Offline 

Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 00:40

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Judy,

You will need to discuss with your doctor if you should take a daily medication known to decrease anxiety (some of the SSRIs treat anxiety and depression) or if you want to take an axiolytic for intolerable anxiety on an as-needed basis only.

Dr. Marshall recommends low dose brand-name Valium used only when needed. Please see:

Which sleep med, anti-anxiety med or muscle relaxant can I take?

Best,

Meg ===== References =====

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